Food addiction is one of the most misunderstood and stigmatized forms of addiction. In the second half of my conversation with licensed clinical psychologist and addiction and trauma specialist Dr. Kenneth Skale, we unpacked the emotional, neurological, and behavioral roots of compulsive eating and why it differs from binge eating disorder, bulimia, or other eating challenges.
This is where the science of addiction meets the lived reality of emotional regulation, trauma, and food as comfort.
Is Food Addiction Real?
According to Dr. Skale, yes—food addiction can mirror other behavioral and substance addictions when eating becomes:
- driven by emotional distress rather than hunger
- repetitive, secretive, or rule-based
- followed by guilt, shame, or a “collapse” after trying to restrict
- impossible to stop despite negative consequences
While binge eating disorder involves discrete episodes of consuming large quantities of food, food addiction tends to be continuous, emotionally driven, and rooted in dysregulation throughout the day.
Why Highly Processed Foods Trigger Addiction
Food scientists design ultra-processed snacks to be hyper-palatable and neurologically rewarding. These foods stimulate massive dopamine spikes—similar to how substances activate the brain’s reward pathways.
As I shared in the interview, you don’t see addiction to strawberries, cucumbers, or watermelon.
But chips, candy, fast food, and sugary snacks?
Absolutely.
That’s because processed foods hijack:
- the dopamine seeking system
- emotional regulation
- our brain’s hierarchy of needs
When someone feels stressed, lonely, anxious, or overwhelmed, their nervous system automatically gravitates toward the quickest, most predictable source of relief: highly palatable food.
Healing your relationship with food, your body, and your mind one honest conversation at a time.
Harm Reduction: A More Compassionate Path
Dr. Skale emphasized that rigid abstinence rarely works for food. One powerful strategy is harm reduction, which replaces the harmful food or ritual with a healthier alternative.
For example:
- Kettle-cooked restaurant chips instead of a gas-station bag
- A mindful break without a cigarette, instead of stepping out to smoke
- A slower, more intentional ritual that disrupts the automatic cycle
Changing the ritual slows down the behavior long enough to interrupt the urge and reduce the intensity of the binge.
This approach aligns with what we know about nervous system regulation:
People heal when they feel safe—not shamed or restricted.
Why Trauma & Attachment Wounds Drive Food Addiction
Many people who struggle with compulsive eating grew up without consistent emotional attunement. When parents dismiss, criticize, or misread their child’s emotional needs, the child learns:
“My feelings are not welcome.”
In adulthood, this leads to:
- emotional avoidance
- fear of vulnerability
- self-soothing through food or other behaviors
- shame around one’s own needs
Food becomes a “safe relationship”—predictable, immediate, and nonjudgmental.
Healing requires helping people feel safe inside their own bodies again, repair attachment wounds, and regulate their nervous system instead of numbing it.
How Loved Ones Can Actually Help
Partners often try to “fix” the problem by:
- controlling food in the house
- removing snacks
- monitoring choices
- commenting on weight
These actions almost always backfire.
Instead, Dr. Skale recommends:
- speaking from feelings (“I feel scared when…”)
- expressing concern without shaming
- focusing on emotional impact, not appearance
- setting boundaries without trying to control behavior
Empathy motivates change. Judgment pushes people deeper into secrecy and addiction.
The First Step for Anyone Who Thinks They Might Be Struggling
Dr. Skale shared one of the most powerful truths of the episode:
“The best disinfectant for shame is sunlight.”
The first step is not a diet, a detox, or a new rule.
It’s telling someone you trust.
After that, he recommends:
- exploring community groups (OA, SMART Recovery, Refuge Recovery)
- considering therapy to address the emotional roots
- naming how the behavior is dimming your light
- understanding why the behavior is here—not just how to stop it
Addiction is not a failure. It’s a survival strategy that developed for real emotional reasons.
And with the right support, it can be transformed.
Would you like to know more about Dr. Kenneth Skale? Here are his social media channels : https://pasadenahealing.com/kennethskale, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/kenneth-skale-pasadena-ca/209374, https://www.pchtreatment.com/staff/kenneth-skale-psyd, https://www.lacpa.org/index.php?option=com_dailyplanetblog&tag=humanity.
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View here the full podcast Transcript:
[00:00:00]
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Welcome back to the ANEW Insight podcast. We are back for our second half of our amazing interview with licensed clinical psychologist, addiction and trauma specialist Dr. Kenneth Skale. Ken, welcome back.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Glad to be back.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Ken gave us some really incredible insight into his history, how he started out as a psychologist and then really became a specialist in addiction, personality disorders, men’s issues.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: I cannot wait to pick his brain some more. I’m learning so much. Ken, welcome back.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Thank you. This has been fun. I really enjoyed the first half and looking forward to what we’re doing here.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Me too. So food addiction is I think, a little controversial topic [00:01:00] because people are like, oh, it’s not, it’s not a necessarily substance that is addictive. Oh, it is. I would love to kind of have you helped me differentiate between food addiction and say some of the other difficulties that you might get with eating disorders, such as like binge eating, even if you’re not necessarily a, a, a specialist in that area.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: What do you have to say about food? Is it, can it be addicting?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I think food addiction is an addiction insofar as other behavioral addictions and substance addictions all implicate that seeking system like we talked about in the first half of our interview. So when someone is relying on food in a way that is, I would say less predicted by actual hunger and [00:02:00] more by their emotional state of dysregulation, when that has negative consequences and they’re unable to stop it, despite trying.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: When they hide it sort of create rules for themselves, I’m not gonna, I’m gonna eat clean today. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna binge, I’m gonna change up my diet and start this exercise routine. And then stress builds and builds and builds and eventually that all comes crumbling down. And there’s a massive backslide in all of those same ways.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: It very closely resembles substance addictions or pornography or, or gaming or other things that people would engage in. As far as how it compares to binge eating disorder. think as far as I understand it, and again, you, you’re right, I’m not a food addiction expert per se, more focused on substances and other behaviors.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: But maybe you can help me clarify if, if this checks out. But I think Binge Eating Disorder really focuses on the episodes of [00:03:00] very discreet, shoving as much food as you can in despite being uncomfortably full, feeling very guilty after. Whereas I would say a food addiction is much more broad. Maybe it speaks to a more underlying pattern of an emotional function for the behavior. Eating not just indiscreet episodes, but throughout the day, despite when one is not full. I mean, despite when one is not hungry,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: and continuing to regardless of satiety as opposed to just those discreet windows.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: if you find yourself snacking all of the time, you are, you are actually never allow yourself to experience hunger.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: It always feels a bit driven. And when you don’t, you experience a lot more stress. I mean, that, that’s, maybe you wouldn’t meet the characteristics of a binge eating disorder, but I would say you certainly could be in the realm of food addiction. Does that check out from what
Dr. Supatra Tovar: absolutely. I think you are completely on point, and I’d like to add that when you see difficulties with food [00:04:00] addiction, right? Or even if it’s food addiction and binge eating disorder, or just binge eating disorder or bulimia, whatever it might be, not so much with anorexia, but what you tend to see is that kind of reward seeking food.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: It’s not. Watermelon. It’s, it’s not, it’s not food that comes from close to the ground. It is usually more in the highly processed range. And knowing what I know from studying nutritional science, having some food science courses as well, is that you have a bunch of scientists, these food scientists, and they are, they’re, they’re
Dr. Supatra Tovar: kind of termed craveability experts and so they know the combination of chemicals and additives that they can add to a food that is going to actually make people, you know, Lays doesn’t have [00:05:00] this motto. You can’t just eat just one for no reason. Like that’s, it’s designed. Yeah, they’re, they’re like straight up like, hi, we’re your food addiction, go-to and, and when we look at highly processed foods, that’s when I see more food addiction than anything else.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: I’ve never seen a food addiction to any natural, like, from the ground food. And so I think it’s also how very similar to how substances like marijuana or cocaine kind of hijack our brains and make us addicted to these substances. Would you agree with that?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Absolutely. I mean, no one that I’ve ever met is addicted to water. There’s some sort, there’s some sort of physical reaction,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: whether it’s alcohol, cocaine cake, potato, chips, [00:06:00] whatever it is soda that the first several times you use it, that does come with a huge surge of dopamine and other neurochemicals, and you make an association, oh this, this thing makes me feel amazing. And then in our internal hierarchy of needs, the things that we need that gets placed right up on top four folks who may struggle with some of the attachment or other kinds of traumas that we talked about in the first half.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: And so then when you feel stressed or anxious, lonely, et cetera, your mind immediately goes to that
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: because seeking relationships is so much more fraught for folks in, in that situation. It’s also just quicker and more predictable to eat something quickly
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: that you can immediately have, it’s there. It’s never, it, it doesn’t require anything of you. And so in, in that way, I think it becomes an automatic part of your life very easily.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes,
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Just because something is so highly palatable..
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Exactly. And I think, [00:07:00] you know, it’s a little harder with food. We have to eat right to survive. You know, we don’t necessarily have to smoke, but I like to, in my treatment, especially for things like food addiction and, and also for smoking is, trying to find replacement behaviors or replacement foods that help kind of
Dr. Supatra Tovar: break that addiction. So for example, like I, I’m a big proponent of, there’s no food that’s off limits because as soon as you make a food off limits, you’re gonna create this taboo, oh, that food is bad. Oh, you know, I can’t have it. And then you end up eventually binging on it. And that’s what I think a lot of people how they develop things like binge eating disorder.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And with food addiction too, they have these certain foods. I also, I I, I have them play around with, well, what if that food wasn’t off limits, but you got it in a different form rather than the, highly [00:08:00] processed bag of Lays. What if you went to a restaurant that had kettle chips, right? And what if you tried that and to see if, that might help kind of break that, automatic go to, go to 711, grab that thing.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And I’ve actually found that that really helps my clients because you are doing an additional behavior and it could actually be, you know, associated with what you were talking about before, like that kind of dopamine reward of like going to the place to get the thing. But I haven’t found that with my clients.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: It actually breaks up the time between, the the desire and the acquisition, and that actually slows them down enough. And especially if they’re kind of out in public, if they’re at a restaurant, they’re much less likely to binge on it, more likely to enjoy it. And if they’re doing this at the same time as opening up their [00:09:00] diet
Dr. Supatra Tovar: to as much, you’re not, if you’re looking at, at, on a spectrum, kind of veering away from the less healthful foods and opening up to the more healthful foods, studies have shown this is old, old research, but the more your diet is, in the more healthful range, the better your mental health, the better your physical health.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: So they start to feel better and they start to leave those things behind, but without that black and white, I need this. In addition, like say for smokers and tell me if this is something that you know resonates with you, many times smokers go out to have their smoke break because they need that break from anxiety, right?
Dr. Supatra Tovar: There’s something happening at work or, you know, they’re, they’re stressed out, they don’t like what they’re seeing. The dynamics inside are bad. They go outside, they take 10 minutes, they’re slowly breathing in, slowly breathing out with a cigarette, right? So I’ve give,
Dr. Kenneth Skale: They take more mindful breaths than we do.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And they do, and I’m like, well, what if you did that without the [00:10:00] cigarette?
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And actually that’s helped a lot of my clients stop smoking, is they can, if they can allow themself that break and know that whatever’s causing their anxiety, that that’s real, that that’s, they’re in a sympathetic nervous system response. If they can get their parasympathetic nervous system online, they automatically feel better.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And of course, you know, down the line much better, their lungs are functioning much better than if they went outside and had the cigarette. So I’d love to hear your thoughts. I know that was really long-winded, but tell me your thoughts.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I mean, the first thing when you were talking about folks changing from, let’s say, full on Lays to kettle chips is the idea of harm reduction.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: When, when in the addiction world, that is a sort of an alternative to abstinence-based models, where are you gonna go from drinking a ton to drinking zero when it’s safe enough, you can have someone slowly reduce. Or just [00:11:00] sustain at some sort of lower level and, and with some issues that’s, that’s appropriate. the best example I can come up with the first thing anybody does when they go to rehab, let’s say they go to rehab for heroin use, they start smoking cigarettes and they go, they go through a pack a day. And I think that’s not great that someone smokes. It is infinitely better than shooting heroin into your veins. And so in that way, you’re reducing the risk for potential harm.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: In the same way, and this I think kind of speaks to food addiction being a legitimate construct. We were, when I was working at the IOP a few years ago folks would come in and from using many different substances and they were all in sober livings after leaving a rehab.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: So they were in a controlled environment. There were no drugs being taken, but when you would see them make their coffee. In the, in the lobby, the amount of creamers that were put in was this. These coffees were 50% [00:12:00] creamer, very sweet. Probably not drinkable for for a lot of folks, but that was what they were doing as an alternative to the drugs they were using. Infinitely better and healthier than whatever they were using. So I think in the same way, rather than taking something that’s less harmful, the way you’re talking about is, let’s actually do something that’s a little bit more healthy. Take something that’s harmful. What’s the healthy version of that you could do? So the ritual is maintained. Maybe that’s the ritual that’s important, but it’s in a way that’s actually sustainable and not hurting you as much.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Exactly.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I think that’s a fantastic practice to do with people.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes, and if you’re doing that in conjunction with going really deep and working on those attachment breaches and helping a client, I really do think it, it does come down to reestablishing that sense of safety in the body. And really understanding objectively what happened to cause that, breach.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And also that feeling of that lack of safety or the lack of [00:13:00] being loved. And you really can start to achieve that in your life no matter who you’re surrounded by. If you are cultivating that in yourself and really finding safety is just nervous system regulation. And a lot of, changing old paradigms of thought and adopting ones that are more aligned with what you want for yourself as opposed to what you’re afraid of.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: So let’s pivot a little. I wanna talk about loved ones. What can they do? What can they say if they start to see some of these addictive behaviors and how can they help their loved ones? Maybe come and find you. Come and find someone who can help them.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Good question because that’s, a sticky issue. What you don’t want to happen is the partner. to being so concerned [00:14:00] that they begin to take responsibility for the other person’s health. So the partner becomes, say, in relationship to food addiction, the partner becomes preoccupied with making sure there’s only healthy food in the house
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: that they don’t go to restaurants with unhealthy options. Finding and throwing out the unhealthy snacks that, that the person they’re concerned about is buying. Trying to somehow have a hand in keeping the person healthy. You wouldn’t want because that’s taking responsibility for the person who’s struggling’s behavior. And when it comes to, other things like that it just ends up where the person who struggling doesn’t get the help that they need, and then it drives a wedge between the two.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Right.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I think what is helpful is pointing out the concern. Being very honest about one’s own feelings.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: [00:15:00] Not, you could make some sort of factual statements about, eating this much is not good for you.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: your maybe one example is like, oh, you already have high blood pressure and you’re eating this, et cetera. You can also use the emotional appeal. This really scares me when you eat this way,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I feel afraid of you when you drink this much.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: that can really land heavily for some people.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: but I would say about a third of the people that come to see me. It’s their wife that called and said, my husband drinks too much. I finally set a boundary with him that he has to go talk to somebody. And so I’m making an appointment for him this day and this time,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: We’ll take it from there. at some point, drawing a very firm line that, I love you to pieces, I cannot watch you hurt yourself and it’s too stressful on me. You need to get some sort of treatments or we can’t be friends anymore, or I need to, especially when it comes to kids. We’re not gonna support you anymore [00:16:00] unless you go get help
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Drawing that firm boundary after there’s a lot of expressed concern really important because otherwise you just get someone who is carrying all of the emotional pain and anxiety about this condition, who is not the person doing the problem behavior. It’s, it’s the spouse, it’s the parent, and the other person is sort of, they’re left to be more or less unconcerned because someone else is carrying all of the, the negative feelings about it.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes. I really like the emphasis on, the feelings that the partner has. That I think is really important because when you look, especially when it comes to something like food addiction, especially if the person is considered overweight or obese, and I really don’t like the whole BMI classifications and um, I find that really stigmatizing.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: But when somebody confronts them about, you know, if it’s food addiction about their appearance, [00:17:00] that actually is far more damaging and leads to even more food addiction or binge eating or, that kind of compensatory behavior. So I wanna caution people, if you are seeing people with food addiction.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Please do not comment on their bodies. Do not comment on their weight, even if you know that that might be something that is, is going to harm their health. Uh, it’s really important to talk about. What, what are they feeling? Get into like, what’s happening inside of you that’s making you do these things.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: I’m just concerned about you and coming from your own personal feelings saying, you know, it really scares me to see this and I don’t think that this is, the most healthful behavior for you. How can we go about getting some help because I don’t have those skills. I think that that’s really important.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: When it comes to substance use, I think it’s a little bit [00:18:00] different, right? You, you, you have a lot more potentially dangerous situations for other family members and you can bring that into the, the picture so that they’re made aware of that along with your feelings. So I think that that’s really helpful.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: So anyone out there who either is experiencing this yourself or has a loved one you know, it’s really important how you approach them, but certainly, and I’m sure you’ve seen success, you may just have to go make an appointment for, you know, your loved one because they may not be at that place, but somebody like Dr.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Ken can get you there. What we gonna say?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Yeah, I was gonna say on that, the point about the emotions, we wanna think about what is the, the strongest position to approach somebody.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: We might think, oh, it’s the reasoning. You drinking this much [00:19:00] is impairing your performance at work. You drinking this much is expensive. The person can always, and will always come back and say, I’m fine at work.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: It’s not that much money. It doesn’t actually, distract me when I’m driving. I’m not any more angry. I’m just stressed at work. They can argue it all day.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: And will. If you come and speak about your own feelings, that is inarguable. It scares me when you drink, not You’re a scary monster when you drink. Yeah. I feel afraid when you drink
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: and that’s something that’s gonna land a little differently that they cannot disprove.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: It’s your subjectivity and assuming you’re close enough to this person, they will care about that. That’s probably the best way to approach someone. ’cause it’s also not shaming. Like you don’t look very good
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: you don’t look like you did five years ago.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes. Which is the worst.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: You say I’m so worried about you.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: [00:20:00] Yeah.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: That hits different.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes, I would agree. And that’s folks, if you ever wanna go to couples counseling, couples counseling, number one 1 0 1, speak from your feelings first because your loved one loves you so much. They don’t want you to feel that way. And when we can learn how to speak from our feelings, we can, rather than, indict, we can invite
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Please see me, see what I’m, you know, have to say, see what I’m feeling. And when you love and care for that person, you do not want them to feel that way, you’ll do usually whatever it takes to, to stop that. I love that. So give me, um, and I a, a picture of when somebody comes to you for treatment, what kind of therapies and approaches do you typically employ to help them move toward recovery?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: The first question. what do they identify as an internal problem?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Not [00:21:00] my wife is complaining about X I’m having trouble at work. I really try to get people to then, okay, well if that’s the case, but what’s, what’s the in, how is that a problem inside for you?
Dr. Supatra Tovar: mm-hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: And help them identify what’s the real emotional pain point. That feeds into the motivational interviewing we talked about in the first segment here is helping them to really reckon with the ambivalence. Part of them knows this as a problem. Part of them hurts and feels bad about this. Part of them sees the impairment. Part of them really wants to keep it going because it’s doing something emotional for them.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: It’s a well worn groove. It’s a ritual. It’s what their family did, et cetera. The more that I can get them to hold that conflict. Most people, not everyone, but most people, will choose to begin some sort of change process or at least exploring the idea. [00:22:00] That’s number one is help, is giving them that conflict back.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I’m not gonna come in very heavy handed talking about why it’s a problem, why they ought to change. I’ll just sound like everyone else in their life. And the problem is when you take a stance like that, it’s the human reaction to take the opposite stance. And then we believe what we hear ourselves say. So if you come in and say, this is a problem, drinking is a problem for you because of X, Y, Z, they’re gonna take the opposite stance and then believe what they say, which is why it’s not a problem, and so you have to be pretty tactful about and respectful, giving them that conflict back. After that, once someone has begun to wrestle with that, I just invite them to explore what they want to do about it, and once someone has gotten there, you can pretty quickly formulate a plan. But I think it’s that initial piece that often gets missed and the person leaves feeling judged, shamed, more closed to future treatment, and more intent on continuing and [00:23:00] hiding what they’re doing.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm. I love that. And I, I really like that it’s, it’s fluid. That you don’t have a first we do this, then we do that, then we go into this. I think that that, we see that sometimes in addiction treatment and we can see that backfiring. We also can see that, um, unfortunately in eating disorder treatment and see it backfire.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: You know, that is a whole other can of worms, but is very strict for a very good reason. It’s understandable, but you see a lot of, kind of trauma that comes from eating disorder treatment and, difficulties and repair work that needs to happen once somebody’s like kind of given a hard line of what they should do.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And I really like that you have them formulate their own plan. That might be harm reduction, that might be complete abstinence, but it really has to work individually, and I think that’s probably what makes you stand out [00:24:00] as an addiction treatment specialist. So for somebody who is listening who’s like, Ooh, I think I might have a problem, what’s the first thing that you recommend that they do?
Dr. Supatra Tovar: If there’s something resonating with them right now? What can they do as their first step?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: I would say talk to anyone that you trust about it. ’cause if there’s some sort of addictive process going on. No doubt there’s shame about it. And the best disinfectant for shame is daylight. So
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Hmm.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: sharing it with someone that you trust who cares about you, that’s probably step number one. And then really taking an honest look, if you feel you’re able to do that at what is, how is this affecting me? What’s the impact on my marriage? What’s the impact on my health, my work, my wellbeing, my general level of alertness? How is this dimming my light? You might say. And I think after [00:25:00] that, if someone comes to the conclusion that this is a problem, there’s a lot of options to go talk to somebody. So there’s a ton of community groups on the substance side, you have AA, NA, Smart Recovery is a great one. Smart Recovery is a community based, cognitive behavioral model where it, there’s not as much emphasis on religion or spirituality as in the AA tradition, and so people can just go and literally learn skills to stay sober and connect with other people, which is great. There’s also Refuge Recovery, which is, you might consider that more of the Buddhist 12 steps, so folks who have, can’t quite get on with the more westernized religious tradition in AA, they often take to Refuge Recovery, which is a great option, then call a therapist. and, and you sort of want to think about the two things.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: One is, well, if this pro, this behavior is a problem for me, what? And I, and I recognize that, what’s the plan to get that under control? Second is why is this [00:26:00] here in the first place? And that might be a bit of a longer, more intensive therapy process. But to really nix it so it doesn’t pop up in another kind of addiction. You’d really want to go through some sort of course of therapy where you’re looking internally at what’s the emotional function, what feelings of mine are, are not processed? What have I been through, I’ve never talked about. And, and work that out.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Oh, I love that. Two great takeaways from what you just said is, the best disinfectant for shame is sunlight. I’ve never heard that before, and I’m gonna steal it. I’m keeping it, and I think asking the question, how does this dim my light? I, I really love that. And so I encourage everyone out there, if you are struggling in some way, really do ask yourself that question.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: How is this actually dimming my light because there is, there are so many pathways that you can take. There’s also Overeaters [00:27:00] Anonymous, everybody. And you know, certainly people out there, who, who can help you if it’s a food related addiction and things like that, you can come talk to me, of course about that.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: But yes, absolutely. I think it’s just shining a little light into it. And then, just being brave enough to reach out your hand to somebody can be that first step. So how do people reach out to you? How do they find you? How can they work with you? I’m, I, I’m always recommending Dr. Ken to people who need it, but, um, how do they find you?
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Well, the feeling’s mutual. I’ve, I’ve certainly sent people your way because I think what you do is fantastic.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Thank you.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: And I’ve appreciated being here. If people wanna reach out to me, our website is pasadenahealing.com and email address is first and last name, Kennethskale@pasadenahealing.com. Feel free to book a consultation email with questions. If you need referrals somewhere where you live that’s not around here, happy to help you find all of that stuff.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Absolutely. And you know, just on [00:28:00] another note too, people, I, I run a pretty large Facebook group. It’s just this labor of love that started in COVID times when everyone was looking for a therapist. It’s called Therapist Client referrals. You can, you can. Email me directly and I can help you find a therapist.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: It’s for therapists only. But you can email me at connect@anew-insight.com and, and say, Hey, I need help finding somebody in this state who’s takes this insurance. And, and I can put that referral out for you and bring back some names for you. So there’s lots of ways. There’s also Psychology Today. It’s a really huge database.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Tons of therapists. I recommend people to go looking that way. And I’m gonna put in the show links all of those recovery groups that you mentioned. ’cause there’s a few that were new to me and I just find that that’s especially the Buddhist one. That’s awesome. I didn’t even know that that was there.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: That’s awesome. So,
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Oh yeah, Refuge is great.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yay. I love [00:29:00] this. I learned a lot. Dr. Ken, thank you so much for helping me understand addiction just a little bit more.
Dr. Kenneth Skale: Thank you for having me. This was fun. I was glad to be invited.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Great. Well thank you everyone for joining us and we’re looking forward to our next exciting interview, and I really hope you join me next time.
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