What happens when the pursuit of perfection becomes the very thing that breaks you?
In this deeply honest and empowering episode of the ANEW Insight Podcast, Dr. Supatra Tovar sits down with Monica Packer a progress coach, motivational speaker, and host of the popular podcast About Progress to talk about her lifelong journey with perfectionism, eating disorders, and what it really means to heal. Part one of this powerful conversation unpacks the all-too-familiar experience of trying to live up to impossible standards and how the radical choice to embrace “messy progress” can transform a life.
1. Perfectionism: The Illness Beneath the Image
Monica opens up about how her high-achieving exterior in her early 20s masked an internal storm. She was the “stereotypical overachieving perfectionist,” a college student with straight A’s, packed schedules, and a fierce sense of control. But that control came at a steep cost. Behind the scenes, she battled multiple eating disorders, panic attacks, and even suicidal ideation.
Perfectionism didn’t make her life better. It broke it apart.
It wasn’t until she walked through the doors of her college’s free counseling center, ironically, the same one she had often referred others to that she began the long road toward healing. But, as Monica reveals, the journey wasn’t linear.
2. Perfectionism Can Also Look Like “Not Trying”
In a striking revelation, Monica describes what she calls “the underachieving perfectionist” a lesser-known form of perfectionism where the fear of failing becomes so strong that people stop trying altogether. For Monica, this meant nearly a decade of being stuck on the sidelines of her own life, too afraid to risk being mediocre, too weighed down by shame to pursue her dreams.
This phase wasn’t laziness, it was a trauma response. Dr. Tovar draws the parallel between perfectionism and the “fawning” or “freezing” responses in trauma theory, highlighting how perfectionism often stems from an unconscious attempt to create safety in a chaotic world.
3. Eating Disorders: A Control Mechanism with Deep Roots
Monica courageously details how her disordered eating began at age 10, not out of vanity, but from a desire to be “good.” What started with food diaries and cutting out sugar eventually led to binge eating disorder, a condition still deeply stigmatized and misunderstood.
What was most transformative for her? A therapist who not only validated her disorder but also gave her the unexpected gift of time. He told her, “You will likely deal with this the rest of your life.” Instead of discouraging her, it freed her from the pressure to recover perfectly. It gave her permission to heal slowly, incrementally, and imperfectly.
4. From Progress to Podcast: How Doing “Something” Changed Everything
A turning point came during a run, when Monica had a realization: what she needed wasn’t perfection, it was progress. That thought birthed her blog and eventually her podcast, About Progress. But her motivation wasn’t to succeed. It was to try.
This became the ethos of her “Do Something List” a personal tool for healing that she now teaches others. The list isn’t about productivity; it’s about exploration. It included things as simple as making a new kind of oatmeal or visiting a museum. The goal? To reconnect with curiosity, creativity, and self-worth.
This practice of doing something, without the pressure of success, sparked a chain reaction. It reignited Monica’s confidence, reshaped her identity, and brought her back to herself.
5. Why Most Perfectionists Aren’t Who You Think They Are
In one of the most insightful moments of the episode, Monica challenges the stereotype of the perfectionist as high-functioning and ambitious. Many perfectionists, she explains, are the “underachieving kind,” those who once strived for perfection but now live in fear of even starting.
Dr. Tovar affirms this with clinical insight: Perfectionism is often a trauma-rooted behavior, not a personality trait. And when we start viewing it as a survival mechanism rather than a moral failing, the shame begins to lift.
6. What Kept Her Going When It Wasn’t Working
When Monica first launched her podcast, she didn’t have big dreams of virality or monetization. She shares that it took eight years and a near decision to shut it down before it started to financially sustain her family’s needs.
So, how did she keep going?
She set a deadline. That deadline created psychological safety. Instead of striving endlessly for an undefined goal, she allowed herself a defined space to explore, try, pivo,t and ultimately persist.
As Monica says, “It’s not about all. It’s not about nothing. It’s about something.”
Why This Episode Matters
This conversation is a vital invitation to anyone who’s ever felt paralyzed by their own expectations. Monica’s story is a reminder that healing doesn’t require perfection; it requires presence. It asks us to show up, to try, and to stay in the game even when the outcome is unclear.
Whether you’re recovering from an eating disorder, untangling from all-or-nothing thinking, or simply trying to take the next right step, Monica’s journey proves that small, consistent efforts fueled by self-compassion can change everything.
🎧 Listen to Part 1 of Monica Packer’s Interview on the ANEW Insight Podcast
📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube: @my.anew.insight
🌐 Stream it at: anew-insight.com under the ANEW Insight Podcast tab
📘 Learn more about perfectionism, eating disorders, and self-healing in Dr. Tovar’s award-winning book: Deprogram Diet Culture
💻 Enroll in the full ANEW course: Deprogram Diet Culture at [anew-insight.com]
View here full podcast Transcript here:
Dr. Supatra Tovar: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the ANEW Insight podcast. I am Dr. Supatra Tovar and I am so excited to have progress coach, podcaster and self proclaimed recovering perfectionist Monica Packer with us today.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Monica, thank you so much for joining us.
Monica Packer: Well, I’m very happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wonderful. I am going to read a little bit about Monica and then we’re going to get right into our questions. Monica Packer is a progress coach, podcaster, and self proclaimed recovering perfectionist who has dedicated her life to helping women break free from the shackles of perfectionism. Through her platform, About Progress, Monica inspires others to embrace the mantra of progress, not perfection.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: We all need to hear this as they pursue personal growth and self development. Her very popular [00:01:00] podcast also called About Progress, which I was on recently and just was so thrilled to have her interview me reaches thousands of listeners worldwide, featuring heartfelt conversations and actionable insights about building habits,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: overcoming self doubt, and fostering self acceptance. Monica has also created impactful tools like the Do Something List and the Sticky Habit Method, which guide individuals towards sustainable, meaningful progress in their lives. She is a mother, a mentor, and a motivational speaker who believes that every woman deserves to feel capable and worthy no matter her circumstances.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Monica’s mission is simple yet profound to help women learn to embrace imperfection and unlock their full potential. And I’m going to add on, I think she’s one of the kindest, most empathetic people that I’ve met in a very long time. Monica, welcome.
Monica Packer: Wow. That was such a glowing [00:02:00] bio. I was like, wow, I didn’t write that, but that was very nice. Thank you.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Oh, absolutely. I think, uh, you’re very inspiring and I think there’s so many listeners out there that really need to understand that perfectionism and being perfect is not a requirement, I think especially
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: for women, but I really want to know about your journey. Um, I think that you’ve inspired a lot of people.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Um, and I just want to know what, what. What experiences led you to do this kind of work? I’m assuming you are, you know, like you said, you’re a recovering perfectionist, but I think I’d love to give our listeners a picture of what that actually looked like for you.
Monica Packer: Well, without, uh, recounting a memoir size history here, I’ll, I’ll just share about two big phases of my life that showed me I needed to find a new way to progress and to develop, [00:03:00] um, the things that mattered to me in my life. And the first happened when I was about 20 years old. at that point I was the stereotypical overachieving perfectionist, you know, getting straight A’s in college, doing all the extracurricular, being super on top of everything from health to my spirituality and on the outside, I’m sure I was something that many people would think just had it all together. And while I could project that on the insides, I was paying the price that perfectionism entailed, which for me, um, really hit, uh, the wall of mental health for me, uh, eating disorders and multiples of them. Um, and with that depression and anxiety and panic attacks and suicidal ideation. And there were quite a series of moments with those that
Monica Packer: help me see I needed help. I’m really glad that my college happened to have that free counseling center [00:04:00] because that’s where I went. Um, at that point I was a mentor for freshmen students. I had sent many students there and it was just one of those weird moments to, you know, walk in that door myself and take it and take, you know, do the intake form and be welcomed right in.
Monica Packer: Um, that started what became few necessary years of deep healing, but because I was trying to heal from those eating disorders, I really went to the other side of perfectionism, which is the underachieving kind that was to, you know, try to protect myself from the pain, great pain and many years of work that recovering from that pain required of me, I thought it was safer to not try because in my mind, there was only one model and it was all or nothing. I would tend to the, my responsibilities, but for myself, there were, there was no push to grow, um, to strive, to be better.
Monica Packer: And again, it just came back to the all or nothing model. [00:05:00] That’s when I hit another wall when I was approaching my 30th birthday. And now this year I’m turning 39. So I expect another thing to happen this year or next year. As I was approaching that birthday. I realized that I was still a perfectionist and that actually came about because of a new therapist
Monica Packer: I had, because just like I did when I was 20, I similarly was very depressed and anxious and dealing with panic attacks. Um, and it was confusing cause I’m like, why, why? Because I, you know, I’m doing nothing with my life. And she pointed out that I was a perfectionist and I realized that the source was true.
Monica Packer: And we can talk more about that. Like the source of putting my identity on my outcomes and it was preventing me from trying so I knew in that moment and it was mostly thanks to how I was showing up in my relationships, meaning not as myself that I had to change and not that I had to be someone different.
Monica Packer: I had to be myself and the way back to myself [00:06:00] entailed a lot of discovery and a lot of, um, weird things I didn’t count on, like habit development and picking up goals again, and other areas of my life that I had long put on the back burner, but doing so in a new way, a way that prioritized messy progress over that all or nothing perfectionism. And like I said, it’s been now nine years later and I have changed dramatically. And I’m myself really, but that experiment of progress over perfection, um, has amounted to exponential growth in ways I
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow.
Monica Packer: I didn’t experience before on any part of that spectrum of perfectionism. And that’s why I’m here.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow. That is a, that’s a long road. And I think a lot of lessons along the way. And again, I think of, of particular interest, not that the entire journey has, is not of interest to me. Um, I think that perfectionism really does present itself in the way of eating disorders for so [00:07:00] many young women. And, and if you could speak a little bit more to that, what did you feel like
Dr. Supatra Tovar: you needed to do in order to be perfect at that age. What, how did your eating disorders present themselves?
Monica Packer: You know, finally getting to the point where my disordered eating turned into eating disorders. That was a long road in and of itself. I mean, those patterns started at a very young age, starting around 10. And I will say everything began with good intentions. I didn’t set out to be someone with an eating disorder.
Monica Packer: I set out to be a good person. And I was just trying to follow the rules, the rules that were taught, you know, quite directly in health class, you know, like down, um, writing a food diary. I don’t think that’s necessarily bad advice, you know, but things like that, uh, eventually turned into more and more of those strict, strict behaviors.
Monica Packer: And I was also a dancer. I was lucky to be in a, in a ballet studio where they didn’t criticize our weight [00:08:00] publicly or weigh us
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow. Mm
Monica Packer: But I know that’s pretty rare, but it just goes to show that so much of this is through osmosis. I never had someone tell me directly that you have to look a certain way to be this kind of dancer, nor did I tell, have someone tell me, you know, good women look this way, but it was very much a part of my family, a part of my culture, a part of my religion as well, that, you know, women have to get your value, it was often on what people could see, not just the physical appearance, but that was a big part of it, but more about what you can achieve and do with your goodness. So it was all with good intentions, you know, it just gradually grew from like, you know, eliminating food groups to thinking I could only eat a certain amount of items a day to eliminating sugar for years at a time. And, you know, it gradually took on bigger behaviors, which for me gradually became binge eating disorder. Which when I was first diagnosed was like new, like it was new to me. Uh, and I was so, [00:09:00] blessed, honestly, to have a therapist who validated that I had an eating disorder
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes.
Monica Packer: because it wasn’t, it wasn’t due to lack of control. It was a biological response to my years of patterns of starving myself. I basically was a failed anorexic. Um, and because of that, I hid it. And, you know, my roommates didn’t know, my best friends didn’t know, my family didn’t know, my husband didn’t know, he didn’t even know until a few years into our marriage, what my eating disorder was. He knew I had had one and I was working on it still, but he didn’t know what type because it just was so, so shame driven for me
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Absolutely.
Monica Packer: So, I mean, that’s a little bit more of the history and you’re, you’re clearly a therapist because you’re just such a good listener and I’m sitting here talking, talking. So, I apologize if that was
Dr. Supatra Tovar: That’s the whole point.
Monica Packer: You’re good at what you do.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: The whole point is for you to be talking. Absolutely. And I think that so many people can relate to this and, and that’s what [00:10:00] I often see in my practice is that binging doesn’t have like just this unknown cause. It’s usually coming from restriction. And I think You know, it’s, it’s centered in control at first, and then because the control is so difficult to maintain, then there’s, you know, and because there’s all or nothing thinking, you go straight to the other side.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And so,
Monica Packer: Yes.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: you know, shame and guilt are, you know, always accompanying those behaviors. So I would assume. You know, the reason why people didn’t know is because most people binge eat in secret. They hide it. They, you know, throw away the wrappers or they’ll go out someplace so that they can eat so that other people don’t see them.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And, um, it is a very, very difficult disorder to, um, overcome. And so,
Monica Packer: Yes.
Monica Packer: What do
Dr. Supatra Tovar: you think for you was the pathway? toward [00:11:00] recovery? What helped you the most? Well I told you that I had a therapist validate that it was an
Monica Packer: eating disorder. That honestly was foundational to my recovery. And as part of that validation, he said something weird to me that I think a lot of people would find maybe depressing, but for me it was not. Um, because I was probably like three months into my recovery and things were getting worse, which was very confusing, especially for someone who had been so Type A about like, if you want this outcome, you do these things.
Monica Packer: And then when you do them, you get that outcome. And it wasn’t the case with my eating disorder. It was only getting worse. I felt like my life was falling apart and ways out were starting to become visible, you know, to others. um, so I was telling him how, how things were going and how distressing it was for me. And he looked at me and he said, Monica, you will likely deal with this the rest of your life. And again, that may sound really depressing, [00:12:00] but for me, it was like, Oh, I don’t have to fix this overnight. I can’t. It’s not down to just sheer willpower and grit. I can’t, you know, push my way through this. It’s going to take time. And that’s really the gift he gave me. He gave me the gift of time. It took a long time. It took me many years. In fact, there were years where I was convinced I wasn’t getting better. Um, and I can see now I was, I can see like that those behaviors were not totally controlling my life, but because like I would still have them, it felt like they were just like, why aren’t they gone?
Monica Packer: You know, but. Now I can say, I think I’m about 18 years, almost into my recovery, I don’t have those problems anymore. And it’s so weird because you know, what helped me is to know I’d probably deal with it the rest of my life. And I don’t, it just took a great deal of time and compassion coupled with persistence to slowly, [00:13:00] ever so slowly make healing happen.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And I think you mentioned it being about all or nothing thinking often when we, uh, deal with perfectionism and I think what that therapist gave you was the middle ground.
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: He, he just, he told you, you didn’t have to be perfect about your recovery,
Monica Packer: Mm
Dr. Supatra Tovar: that it is a process and it is about, you know, incremental steps towards healing.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And I think a lot of people who struggle with perfectionism thinks that it has to just be. Oh, okay. Now I know I have a problem, so I have to solve it. And that’s the same type of thinking that got them into perfectionism. So that was an incredible gift. Now you said like there was a period of time where everything was kind of messy.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: But then you realized you were still a perfectionist.
Monica Packer: Yeah.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Give a picture of that because I think that’s kind of a newer concept of people. You know, that even [00:14:00] if your life doesn’t look like it, you may still be practicing perfectionism and be called a perfectionist even if the life looks messy.
Monica Packer: So most perfectionists I know are actually the quote unquote underachieving kind.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm
Monica Packer: And just like the binge eating disorder began
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm hmm.
Monica Packer: initially from a place of control of hyper control. find that the underachieving perfectionists also had big periods of going after the all of the all or nothing part of perfectionism of really being high achieving and hard working and burning out and not being able to sustain what they were doing or paying a price. They didn’t, that they didn’t intend to pay. and then falling into that, what seems like a safe side of nothing, to just not try anymore. Um, to not put in the effort because of fear. Uh, and now it’s like the fear is stopping you [00:15:00] before you even start.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm.
Monica Packer: of course, there’s a spectrum to that. And then sometimes people just bounce back and forth or they’re somewhere in between, or they get lost in that indecision because they’re just fighting those dual sides of themselves because they’ve been bouncing around so much.
Monica Packer: It really affects the way you see yourself. So when I, when I realized I was still a perfectionist again, thanks to that and then another amazing therapist, you guys just all changed the world. Um, I just, like I said, was on the sidelines. I I’ve always been I was a little girl. I’ve always been someone who is more, uh, determined and wants to grow.
Monica Packer: That’s just always been a part of me, but ambitious too. That was a part that totally gone. There were things I’d always wanted to try or do even just as simple as writing up a blog because everybody was writing a blog in those 2010s, you know, period, especially the early 2010s and just thinking, oh, I can’t because nobody will read [00:16:00] it, or oh, I won’t be very good at it. Or you know, considering that I wanted to go into interior design, but I, well, that won’t be practical or I won’t be able to get clients, you know, things like that. I’ve just on the sidelines for everything. Um, but when we talk about perfectionism, I’m sure you will have a more, uh, like a more official definition about, you know, it’s a coping mechanism.
Monica Packer: It’s a, it’s a behavioral thing. It’s also a mindset thing. But for me, the root of perfectionism is a misplacement of identity. It’s where we misplace who we are on our outcomes,
Monica Packer: whether we have them or we don’t
Monica Packer: So at
Monica Packer: that point when I didn’t have them
Monica Packer: them, that was very reflective.
Monica Packer: of my identity, that I was a failure, that I couldn’t try, that it wasn’t, it was for other people to do big things.
Monica Packer: Not for me, that that wasn’t possible for me because I didn’t fit that mode, that mold anymore. Um, I’m sure many women can relate to that. I’ve had women totally break down when they’re like, wait, I’m not lazy. [00:17:00] I’m just a perfectionist.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: I do think, you know, if we kind of venture into therapy land, that perfectionism is, is a form of a trauma response.
Monica Packer: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: look at like fight or flight. That’s what most people think is their, you know, kind of lack of safety response, but there’s also freezing, which was this period of time for you.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And then in terms of perfection, that’s really fawning and we’re trying to make our environment safe. That I think is so important for people to realize that it’s not, you know, just societal pressure or just the what women face, I think so often it’s about trying to make sure that our environment is safe enough for us to feel comfortable and, and that pursuit becomes never ending because there is no such thing as perfect, [00:18:00] and so you’re always striving and never achieving rather than just being, you know, comfortable and satisfied.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: where you are. I think that that’s, you know, at, at the core of it. So then when your therapist, basically you were like a frozen perfectionist, what snapped you out of it?
Monica Packer: Well, I think it was just me going on a run, honestly, where I could actually think, you know, and I was just mulling over her words, like. You’re a perfectionist. You’re a perfectionist. I’m just like, Hmm, I don’t know if that’s true. But then as I was running and I was thinking, I was realizing, yeah, I can see it now.
Monica Packer: I can see it. I can see how my behaviors were really pushed by, know, this response to, to my life. And to what I’ve been through and how I thought I was supposed to be and the disappointments of the failures along the way. And as I turned the corner to the street, to our home, I just had this [00:19:00] thought just needs to be about progress.
Monica Packer: Like I just need to,
Monica Packer: I just need to try to do things..
Monica Packer: and be mediocre at them. Like I just should do that. And
Monica Packer: then I had the idea to start a blog and I initially was going to call it Mediocre Monica. Cause that’s what I wanted. I wanted to be mediocre. I wanted to have the courage to be bad at things,
Monica Packer: you know to mess up
Monica Packer: at them and to not be successful
Monica Packer: right away. Um, but I, I started, I decided
Monica Packer: to call it About Progress
Monica Packer: instead and document things. And the thing is like, and nobody did
Monica Packer: read that blog
Monica Packer: it it it wasn’t a success. Like it, it didn’t, it didn’t
Monica Packer: create the
Monica Packer: outcomes, um, that I would have hoped, but what it
Dr. Supatra Tovar: did do
Monica Packer: is instill this weird sort of confidence in me.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Um,
Monica Packer: And that I’ll start, you know, that’s part of my Do Something List that you mentioned at the very front in my bio. That’s, that’s what I try to do. I made a list of 30 things I wanted to try before I turned 30. Now we call that the Do Something List in my community. And the whole point [00:20:00] was trying. It was about exploration, not completion.
Monica Packer: And on that, one of the things was right, start the blog finally. And other things included, go to a museum because I, almost went into museum studies. I did an internship at the Smithsonian D. C. and I haven’t been to a museum since, you know,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow.
Monica Packer: Make new kind, a new kind of oatmeal was on the list.
Monica Packer: Like anything counted. It was, this is where, um, your, your listeners may not be able to see, but this painting over here is one of those things from my do something list. Like my husband came home to me
Dr. Supatra Tovar: They’ll see it.
Monica Packer: painting, you know, it’s not good. It’s there to remind me just how it felt to be okay with not being good at something. And because that was the point. confidence grew in me. And I think more than the confidence, it was that sense of myself was returning again. And I was able to form a new relationship with, uh, failure. I was able to form a new relationship with myself.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow. And they will be able to see this as we are recording the video as well. So gorgeous [00:21:00] painting. And, you know, I think that is, uh, so inspiring and it had to have inspired others because you now have like a community that you correspond with. Tell us how that, how you built that, how that grew.
Monica Packer: Well, funnily enough, it all came from the Do Something List, you know, getting into this mode of it’s about progress, not perfection, you know, And, and that, that courage, that sense of self, it was earning me. One of the things I like to tell women is there’s a trickle down effect. When you do the do something less things, other things start to happen in your life that you didn’t intend, but are really good for you, such as me getting back into habits, which I had no plan on doing, but one of the
Monica Packer: things was start a podcast. So about 9 months in to this experiment I just had this thought while we were
Monica Packer: driving back from San Diego, we lived in Northern California at the time, uh, one of our kids said, [00:22:00] Uh, unfortunately gotten sick on our vacation.
Monica Packer: So we had to drive all the way back just that single day. And as we were driving, I had a lot of time on my hands and I was just thinking, and I turned to my husband and I was like, I think I’m going to start a podcast. He was like, okay. So I Googled like how to start a podcast. And it wasn’t because I was like, I’m going after something big.
Monica Packer: These are my
Monica Packer: goals here are the steps I am going to get there It was more why not try? Because it’s ok for me to be bad at this.
Monica Packer: it’s about progress so I get to be bad and that’s how the podcast started. And what do you know?
Monica Packer: It’s now been eight and a half years, almost later, and I’m still doing it. And that’s another thing that’s changed my life too. Didn’t have it on my list to begin with. So there’s going to be trickle down effects to, challenging these perfectionistic tendencies of leaning into to the mess of, of leaning into the courage it requires to take small [00:23:00] steps and to persist in those small steps, believing that big change will happen because it will.
Monica Packer: And so will the trickle down effect.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: How did you keep going? Even if, you know, maybe listenership was small in the beginning, how did it, how did you stay motivated?
Monica Packer: I really think it goes back to some naivete, naivete.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: to say that word. Uh, definitely that, but also, um, I had been so encouraged by what it felt like to do things again. That’s why it’s called the Do Something List. It wasn’t
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: all it wasn’t nothing, it was something.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: And just how good it felt to be doing something in my life instead of just thinking about it or being jealous of other people doing it.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yes.
Monica Packer: To finally be doing it
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: alone for many years was the fuel I needed to keep going. But
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: along the way, um, Just, I interviewed a lot of people in the beginning. It was mostly a stories podcast. [00:24:00] I mostly interviewed other people about their own story of learning about progress over perfection.
Monica Packer: Uh, we talked, we ended up talking a ton about mental health, which there’s no surprise now, but again, then it wasn’t really a big open topic.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: but
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: hearing people’s stories just really helped me see I wasn’t alone in mine and it helped me see the purpose to my pain. And then I was able to also use my other skill sets of, of teaching, which I was a good teacher I love teaching, um, and learning.
Monica Packer: I love doing, I love learning as well. Um, and being able to use those skill sets in new and different ways. It’s also been a big challenge for me. Uh, actually last year was my make it or break it year for my, for my podcast. Now eight years in at that point, I was like, you know, listen, guys. The, this is not working in terms of, of helping pay for my kids speech therapy, which they all seem to need. So it’s either going to work or it’s not. I’m going to have to move on. It was a [00:25:00] tough year.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow.
Monica Packer: helped me persist is I gave myself a deadline to stop. I
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: I gave myself a deadline and because I had a deadline to stop, I didn’t quit.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Wow. Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: And it also gave me the freedom I needed to explore other options because I did. I still have those options right now. You know, when the deadline came, it, luckily it did feel like, okay, we can continue. Like I can pay for those speech therapy, uh, sessions.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Yay.
Monica Packer: Hooray. Um, but it’s still a long road, you know, but I’m, I’ve turned that corner and there’s been, there’s had already been many dips in the road.
Monica Packer: So I knew that too, like, Hey, there’s always dips and whatever, everything you pursue, or it’s just like things aren’t working or you have to pivot or, it’s feels really defeating or like nobody cares and that’s any pursuit. Right.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: Mm-hmm
Monica Packer: But having that deadline helped me actually get through that better. And, um, it also helped [00:26:00] me be like, yeah, it’s not the end of the world. Everybody
Dr. Supatra Tovar: gosh,
Monica Packer: Everybody has to change tracks. So
Dr. Supatra Tovar: so inspiring. Oh, I
Monica Packer: be in my future. I may, of the things I’m considering is becoming a therapist. So who knows, maybe I’ll,
Dr. Supatra Tovar: I think you’d be so good at that. Oh,
Monica Packer: But for now I can stick with the podcast.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: it’s so inspiring. I mean, it’s the basic message and we’re out of time for this half of the podcast, but I really want to sum it up is, you know, we are all under these pressures to be perfect, societal pressures, especially also internal pressures, familial pressures, but we really need to learn that there is this middle ground.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: And when we can exist in the middle ground, we actually can give us much more grace, much more space to be able to explore. And that’s what you started to do. And I want to come back and talk about this, Do Something List. So we can really map that out for [00:27:00] Listeners. Um, and that’s what resulted in your podcast.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: You also gave yourself time and space plus a deadline, and that helped you to explore within that time without the pressure of, you know, a never ending pursuit that maybe will not go anywhere. So totally inspiring. And you would make an incredible therapist, by the way. You’re so just you’re so warm. And I mean, I think everyone feels so comfortable around you.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: But
Dr. Supatra Tovar: That’s very kind.
Dr. Supatra Tovar: We’re going to get back into this a little bit more in the next half. Thank you so much for joining us. Tune in next time for the second half of this amazing interview with progress coach, podcaster, and self proclaimed recovering perfectionist, Monica Packer. Thank you, Monica.
Monica Packer: Thank you.
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