There are conversations that stay with you long after the microphones switch off — the ones where truth feels both tender and electric. My interview with psychotherapist and “anger expert” Bronwyn Schweigerdt is one of those moments.
Bronwyn’s work invites us to rethink everything we were taught about “negative” emotions. Instead of seeing anger as something to control or hide, she shows how this emotion often holds the exact wisdom we need to reclaim our boundaries, repair our attachment wounds, and prevent long-term psychological and physical illness.
In Part One of our conversation on the ANEW Insight Podcast, we go deep into the role of suppressed anger, the biology of stored emotions, and how unresolved childhood dynamics repeat themselves in adulthood in ways we don’t always recognize — until our bodies start speaking for us.
The Moment a Nutritionist Became a Therapist
Bronwyn didn’t plan to return to graduate school. She loved her work in nutrition. But life has a way of delivering experiences that reroute us in profound ways.
She described falling into a severe depressive episode — one that didn’t feel like the typical emotional crash. Her body erupted first:
• sudden vomiting spells
• relentless hunger
• rapid weight gain
• debilitating fatigue
All of it arrived at once. All of it felt mysterious.
But beneath the physiology was something much deeper: unexpressed anger, unmet emotional needs, and an absence of attunement during a major life transition.
In trying to get help, she searched for a therapist who could meet her with curiosity, presence, and attunement — and struggled to find one. That frustration eventually pushed her to study psychotherapy herself.
What she didn’t know then is that her own healing journey would become the core of her professional work: helping people feel the emotions they’ve been trained to bury.
When Your Body Becomes the Storage Unit for Unspoken Feelings
One of the most stunning parts of our conversation was Bronwyn’s explanation of alexithymia — the psychological term for “having no words for emotions.”
People with alexithymia are not emotionless. They simply turn inward instead of expressing what they feel, especially emotions that carry social shame such as anger, betrayal, or rage.
Bronwyn’s continuing education research uncovered a striking pattern:
the more a person suppresses emotions, the more the immune system suffers.
Across studies, alexithymia is linked with:
• autoimmune disorders
• asthma and respiratory issues
• seizure conditions
• chronic gastrointestinal disturbance
• hormonal dysregulation
• increased cancer risk due to weakened immune surveillance
This isn’t metaphor.
This is biology.
When the nervous system registers threat or emotional injury — but the mind refuses to validate or express it — the body absorbs the impact. Cortisol rises. Inflammation escalates. Digestion slows. Sleep becomes unstable. Cognitive function declines.
Emotions don’t disappear. They relocate.
When Anger Is a Boundary, Not a Behavior
One of the most important distinctions Bronwyn makes is between two forms of anger:
Healthy anger
This is grounded, clear, reality-based. Healthy anger communicates:
“A need hasn’t been met. A boundary is being crossed. Something matters here.”
It pushes us toward:
• assertive speech
• clear limits
• accountability
• self-protection
• truth
It’s the emotional equivalent of an immune response:
a signal designed to keep us safe.
Reactive anger
This is the explosive, “hothead” anger we tend to fear. But Bronwyn reframes it:
Reactive anger is not about the present person or situation.
It is the echo of an old wound — usually an attachment injury — getting touched.
When someone reminds us of a parent who was dismissive, rejecting, or emotionally unavailable, the body reacts before the mind can reason.
Anger doesn’t belong to the person in front of us.
It belongs to a younger version of ourselves.
How Childhood Attachment Shapes Adult Emotional Triggers
Bronwyn shared a powerful example from her own life:
When she and her family moved to a new city during the Great Recession, she felt isolated, scared, and lonely. One night she looked at her husband with tears in her eyes, hoping for a moment of empathy — and instead saw a hardened expression.
But that lack of attunement wasn’t cruelty. It was his guilt.
He felt responsible for uprooting the family and couldn’t emotionally open without confronting that guilt.
To Bronwyn, the moment felt like abandonment.
To her nervous system, it signaled danger.
To her inner child, it felt like a reenactment of early maternal misattunement.
That combination spiraled into depression, binge eating, somatic symptoms, and a profound sense of self-betrayal — all stemming from unexpressed anger and unmet attachment needs.
This is the heart of psychodynamic work:
Pain repeats until it is understood.
Why So Many Women Suppress Anger
Bronwyn and I explored how cultural conditioning plays a major role, especially for women and people raised as girls.
Women are praised for being agreeable, accommodating, nurturing, and calm. Assertiveness is “too much.” Anger is “unbecoming.”
We internalize this early.
So when boundaries are crossed or emotional needs go unmet, instead of saying,
“This hurts,”
“That’s not okay,”
or
“I need something different,”
we silence ourselves.
But the body hears everything we don’t say.
How Suppressed Anger Shows Up in Daily Life
Here are the patterns Bronwyn sees most often in her clients:
1. Taking on responsibility for other people’s emotions
Instead of asserting needs, we tiptoe.
2. Feeling guilty for saying no
Anger gets redirected inward, showing up as self-criticism.
3. Physical symptoms that seem unrelated
Digestion issues, migraines, chronic tension, fatigue, sleep problems — all possible signs of emotional compression.
4. Triggered reactions in safe relationships
A partner’s silence, tone, or facial expression can ignite a reaction that actually belongs to the past.
5. Anxiety before a panic attack
Bronwyn often asks,
“Could anything earlier in the day have made you angry?”
And suddenly the pattern becomes clear.
Breaking the Cycle: How to Work With Your Triggers
Bronwyn offered a beautiful practice she calls an integration exercise — a technique to connect current emotional triggers with their earliest origin.
The steps include:
• noticing the bodily sensation of the trigger
• tracking it back to the earliest memory with that same sensation
• meeting your younger self with adult understanding
• returning shame to its rightful source
• releasing the stored emotion from the body
It is not about blaming parents or partners.
It’s about reclaiming emotional truth.
I use a similar strategy in my own clinical work — inviting clients to imagine a caregiver at their highest healed self offering the empathy and apology they never received. That imagined repair often brings profound shifts in the nervous system.
There Is No Such Thing as “An Angry Person”
Bronwyn said something I hope every reader sits with:
There is no such thing as an angry person.
There are only people carrying unprocessed pain.
Some anger is protective.
Some is reactive.
All of it is understandable when you trace it back far enough.
When we stop shaming anger, we can finally learn from it.
About Bronwyn Schweigerdt, here are her social media channels: https://angryattherightthings.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/bronwyn-schweigerdt-3124857/ https://www.facebook.com/people/Angry-at-the-Right-Things/61555715646671/
Why This Conversation Matters
As therapists, we see every day how shame, silence, and self-abandonment create emotional and physical suffering that lasts for decades.
Bronwyn’s work is a reminder that healing is not about becoming calmer or more “in control.”
Healing is about becoming more whole.
Your emotions are not enemies.
They are messages.
And when you learn to listen to them — and give them language — your body finally gets to rest.
Stay Connected for Part Two
In the next half of our conversation, Bronwyn and I explore:
• how shame embeds in the body
• what anger can teach us about unmet needs
• why emotional liberation requires embodiment
• how to rebuild safety after attachment wounds
• practical steps to reclaim your voice and boundaries
You won’t want to miss it.
Keep Learning, Healing, and Growing
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Course: Deprogram Diet Culture — science-based, trauma-informed healing
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View here the full podcast Transcript:
[00:00:00]
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Hi everyone. I am so thrilled to have licensed psychotherapist, speaker, and self-described anger expert Bronwyn Schweigerdt with us today. Bronwyn, welcome.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Thank you, Supatra.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Very excited to start to pick your brain on all things anger. Before I do that, I am going to read a little bit about Bronwyn so you know about her background, and then we’ll get right into our questions.
Bronwyn Schweigerdt is a licensed psychotherapist, speaker and self-described anger expert whose groundbreaking work redefines how we view emotions like shame, rage, and betrayal. With master’s degrees in both counseling and nutrition, she blends a deeply embodied psychodynamic approach to therapy with her passion [00:01:00] for truth telling and emotional liberation.
Her mission is not to fix people’s problems, but to help them feel the emotions they’ve been taught to suppress, especially the ones society shames most. Bronwyn believes that disowned emotions don’t disappear. They embed themselves in the body, contributing to depression, anxiety, and even psychosis.
Through her clinical work and her podcast, Angry at the Right Things, she empowers people to reclaim their emotional lives, transform their relationship with anger and reverse the lasting effects of trauma. Welcome, Bronwyn.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Hmm. Thank you.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Well, I would love to delve into your background. Um, that’s really where I love to start, is finding people’s inspiration.
And like you, like me and like you, we both have backgrounds in nutrition. I would love to hear what inspired you to start [00:02:00] counseling. Um, what inspired you to study nutrition and how did this all lead you to explore the power of anger in emotional healing?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah, thank you. Um, so did not go looking to go back to school and get another, you know, master’s degree in another career whatsoever. I was very happy in the nutrition realm, but. As life brings us curve balls, um, I myself felt into a very, very profound depressive episode that made me physiologically sick.
I mean, I was vomiting, uh, involuntarily at random times, very humiliating times, sometimes walking down the street, sometimes driving the freeway. Um, and then I couldn’t stop eating as well. So it was just this weird thing where I’m vomiting, but I’m, know, gaining 30 pounds in a couple months as well. And I’m eating day and night, waking up feeling like [00:03:00] I’m starving. So knew it all started at the same time as the depression, so I knew it was related. I had no idea how, but I went on a search, um, for a good enough therapist who could help me figure it out. And I think a good enough therapist is someone like a good friend or a good parent. Who is a mirror who helps you understand yourself. I did not have any luck. I tried many different therapists and every time I sat there thinking, sitting on their couch and thinking to myself, know, Bronwyn, you are hardly functional right now, but I still think you might make a better therapist than this person. So part of healing from that particular depressive episode was me going back to school to become a therapist.
Uh, after that or kind of during that time, because then that takes years to get all your hours and all that. I fell into another very profound depressive episode that was more pernicious. It was just long,
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Hmm.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: without all the somatic symptoms, just [00:04:00] depressed. And, um, all that to say that, you know, took about over a decade, both those times.
Um, and looking back when I became a therapist, and then connecting the dots seen in my client’s lives. This connection between our depression, our anxiety, armenia, even our somatic symptoms and suppressed anger seemed to be the takeaway. And looking back on my depressive episodes, I know without any doubt that if I had had the awareness at that time to say to myself, you know what, Bronwyn, it’s okay to be angry. It’s okay. We can channel this anger out of our bodies with assertive speech and say, Hey, you know what? That’s not okay. I’m gonna say no. You know, honest to God, if I had said that for that second depressive episode, that time, [00:05:00] it would’ve saved me like a, a vortex of suffering and pain after that. And what happens is when we don’t allow ourselves to feel that anger, to honor it, to channel it out of our bodies with assertiveness, with boundaries, with accountability, end up betraying ourselves. And our bodies, I believe, are always communicating to us. They’re always speaking and they’re saying, Hey, WTF, like you are betraying me. so, you know, I look at that, that that was my body. You know, all that anger was stagnating inside of me making me sick. And I see that with my clients who have anxiety right before their panic attacks. I say, well, it seemed like, you know, that thing that happened could have made you angry if you allowed yourself to feel angry.
Oh yeah, maybe that did make me a little angry. But we dissociate from our anger, ’cause we were conditioned from childhood. Don’t be angry. [00:06:00] No. Good girls aren’t angry
or
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Especially women.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Especially women.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I think it’s a lot more, uh, accepted with men,
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: to be angry, to show more aggression, but it is certainly something that we are conditioned as females to, you know, or female identifying to suppress.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: if you could go into, if you feel comfortable,
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: What led to these, like what were some of the life events that led to these depressive episodes and what did you learn?
Besides from the, and I’m totally on board with you. I think that, you know, suppressed emotions sit and they stay in the body until they’re released. What were the kind of factors that led to the suppression of these emotions?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah. So the second one I kind of hinted at, so that one I was just starting out as before, you’re an intern, when you’re getting your hours, you’re actually a trainee. Like, I don’t remember how many hours, but you’re, it was, I hadn’t even started yet, so I’m a [00:07:00] trainee. I don’t, I haven’t even finished school.
I’m, I’m about to see my first client ever of 3000, um, to get all those hours. And the place I was interning, the director was also my supervisor and he told me my first client was going to be a couple. If you know anything about therapy. There are licensed therapists who will not see couples. It is something you really need to be equipped for and trained in. If not, you can do a lot of damage and it will cause you to burn out very quickly. And he’s telling me, my very first client ever is a couple. And I look at him and I say, I, I’m not ready for a couple. And he goes, you, it’s gonna be the couple. You’re gonna see the couple. And that’s where I wish I had had that awareness to say, you know what, Dave? This is not a good fit then, I’m gonna find another internship site. I don’t wanna work at your center. That would’ve saved me literally years of depression, because that ended up [00:08:00] spiraling, spiraling, spiraling. That’s a long story, but that was the first of many self betrayals where I suppressed my anger.
Our anger’s there to keep us from betraying ourselves.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Mm-hmm.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: anger. There’s also reactive anger. We could talk about that. That’s different, healthy anger is there so we don’t betray ourselves. And so I went from one self betrayal to another, to another to kind of stay at this position in this internship site. Anyway, um, the other depressive episode that I, that I first had. Was actually anger at my husband. So we had just relocated to a different city. This is about 16 years ago when the Great Depression or the Great Recession happened, and we moved. He started working. My daughter was little. Um, I had been pretty much a stay at home mom, although I did have a job that I had to move away from a very part-time job. So we move, it’s a, it’s a different city, but it might as well have [00:09:00] been the other side of the moon because I don’t know a single person, I was so lonely. He’s going to work every day, so he’s not feeling the lonely loneliness like I am my daughter, I just enrolled her in kindergarten, so I’m all alone every day.
I don’t know anyone. I don’t have a job, I’m just like really struggling, I look at him one night. Just a few nights after we moved, actually. And I looked at him and I, I think I had tears in my eyes and I just wanted him to recognize how much I was hurting and I was looking for empathy. And what I saw was a very hardened, unempathetic empathetic look like, like, like a jadedness, like where he was resisting giving me any empathy.
And we have since discussed this. It was because he felt guilt. For making us move because he’s the one who got the job that we had to relocate for. So he withheld empathy because that would’ve [00:10:00] made him feel guilty for causing my pain. In his mind, he felt responsible for me,
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Wow.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: its own mythology, but in his mind, that’s what was happening. So when he did that, I felt so betrayed by him, and it also triggered up a lot of stuff from my early childhood with a mom who never had empathy for me or attuned to me in any way. And so that was, know, if, if I could have in that moment just said, you know what, Steve, I know you, you feel guilty me hurting right now.
I know you feel responsible, but you’re not. What I need from you right now is I need you just to give me some empathy. Okay. Is gonna be a win-win because I’m gonna feel better when you do that and you’re actually gonna feel better ’cause you can comfort me instead of feeling like you have to stay away from your own guilt. That would’ve saved, you know, our marriage at that time. It would’ve saved me from going into that depressive [00:11:00] episode. It would’ve saved me from getting sick and gaining the 30 pounds in two months.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Wow.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Well, I very human. Uh, incident that led to a very human response. And I agree with you. I think I always say that anger means that our boundaries are being crossed in some way. Anger erupts because we are feeling an encroachment. And oftentimes, especially women, females, people who identify as females, we’re not taught to push back.
Our boundaries are crossed, we’re we’re conditioned to take it and to be silent about that. And so you mentioned how all these emotions, and I agree with you completely, especially just doing the work that I do, um, that they, they emotions get stored. They live in our bodies. So for people who don’t really [00:12:00] resonate with that, how does that process work psychologically and physiologically?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: So I recently gave a continuing education unit lecture, and you have to do a lot of research ’cause to get approved by the APA, they want you to cite recent studies. So it was actually really fun and I learned. There is so much research, like peer reviewed, published journal research, psychological that, um, the word here is alexithymia.
So that word means without words, literally a means without, and then lexi, like lexicon means vocabulary. Alexithymia is the scientific word for what I would, what my clients call. Keeping it all inside. So when we don’t talk about our feelings, especially our anger, ’cause know, most of us feel okay to talk about the other feelings, but it’s the anger, the betrayal, the hatred, the rage that we keep inside the most.
So [00:13:00] when we are alexithymic, when we hold it inside, what I found in the research that I’ve done. It causes autoimmune disorders. Even, they’re even showing it in, you know, children with type one diabetes more alexithymic than children who do not have type one in women with MS. And more severe MS.
They’re more alexithymic with people with, um, seizures, with, um, seizure conditions with, uh, oh man, asthma. With lower immune function. So people who have all kinds of immune disorders, hormonal disorders, uh, hypo, parathyroid disorders, I mean, it is linked to everything. So immune, autoimmune and then cancer because if our immune system is down, we are at much higher risk for cancer.
And that is also very much suggested by the research.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: [00:14:00] I would assume that it is probably because of a buildup of cortisol and a lot of the stress hormones that erupt when you are in distress. And I would think that if you are holding them inside, cortisol just continues to build up. And as we’ve seen, uh, in plenty of research, that’s actually what. Uh, leads to a lot of physiological problems including joint pain, difficulties in cognition, um, digestive issues like you were having as well.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: yes. Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: when you see that prolonged over time, that’s what’s creating this inflammation and that inflammation along with whatever you’re doing in your diet, in your lifestyle. If. If you’ve got that kind of trifecta of
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: um, you know, kind of maladaptive behaviors and difficulties in your bodies, that’s what leads to more of those [00:15:00] long-term and more difficult diseases.
That is really fascinating. So gimme a picture of some of the most common ways that people suppress their anger without even realizing it, and how does that manifest in their daily lives or in their mental health?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah, so kind of, I liked your, um, kind of definition of someone crossing a boundary. Um, but I would also say kind of like my experience where my husband wasn’t giving me empathy, so I didn’t think like he’s crossing a boundary. Uh, it was more like you’re not, you’re not being the responsible attachment figure you’re supposed to be.
And that’s a type of betrayal that I think even more common and more insidious. ’cause we don’t allow ourselves to feel that or notice that it’s so hidden. It’s so, you know, covert. So when someone, our, our partner, our parent especially, those are mainly the two that I [00:16:00] see in therapy, that we have these expectations on them to attune to us, to show empathy, to nurture us.
You know, that that means by validating our feelings, saying, oh yeah, Bronwyn, I see how hurt you are right now, and it breaks my heart. I mean, that’s it, that’s all I needed him to say. It would’ve taken 10 seconds. But when they don’t, when they feel us, when they invalidate our feelings, when they gaslight us, right? That is really, really going to mess with our bodies if we are not paying attention, if we’re not acknowledging it and if we’re not doing something about that.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Absolutely, and I think you can even look at that from the attachment lens. Uh, especially if you are coming from anything other than secure attachment. And that’s, I’m sorry, most people, it’s very rare to find somebody completely securely attached.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: You see a lot of those [00:17:00] behaviors, uh, from a caregiver to the child that really, um, disrupt the child’s sense of safety.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I really love to, to couch things in terms of safety. A child really has very simple needs, love and safety, those two primary things. And when they’re not feeling that, they’re not getting that, that’s when they have a lot of these physiological, uh, reactions that then kinda inform and then shape their own attachment styles.
And we’re looking often to resolve those. And that’s what we see when we get into our partnerships. We actually tend to find people to partner with that are similar to the people that we’ve had difficult attachments within our childhood. So we’re kind of recreating these, um, environments in hopes of, of resolving that attachment and becoming safe [00:18:00] again, and then becoming secure.
But it doesn’t often happen. You just see a cycle repeated and it sounds like that happened with you. Um, when you’re mentioning, you know, your mother not showing empathy and then your husband not as well.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm. Yes. And I will say what you’re saying, absolutely couldn’t agree more. What that we try to, so what I call that or what, you know, I think psychodynamic therapists will call that is we’re working something out. We’re trying to work something out in the present that we didn’t ever get in the past.
And I like to say. That when we do that with a present relationship, what we’re really trying to do through this partner is we’re trying, like, I’m trying to prove to little Bronwyn that her mom really does love her through my partner. So I find a partner similar to my mom. Invalidating doesn’t give a lot of attunement. And if I can make [00:19:00] him validate me, if I can help get him to attune to me, then I’m proving to myself that I am really lovable. I’m like closing that deal, right? Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Exactly, exactly. That’s what I see
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: most often in my in my therapyy office is that, you know, once we actually really understand objectively what was going on in our childhood. When we can see that pattern of behaviors from our caregivers, from a more, you know, detached and objective standpoint, you can see how that pattern plays out in your life.
And that’s when everybody’s like, oh my God, you know, the aha moments. And through therapy and through communication with their partner, they actually can
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: that. But if they don’t even know that it’s happening
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: more in their subconscious and also just housed and stored in their bodies, it’s really [00:20:00] difficult.
And that’s why I think, you know, I mean, I always say everyone needs therapy. And that is not like as a derogatory thing. I think therapy is so invaluable for making these kinds of connections and lv if you do, and I agree with you, I’ve had my share, uh, and I’ve heard some horrifying stories from my clients and it just makes me sad for the profession.
And it just, you know, illuminates a need for better oversight. You know, I don’t wanna say gatekeeping ’cause I, I don’t like that word, but just really like some more close supervision and maybe even better classes out there.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: yeah,
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Um, just more experience is needed for so many people. So, pivoting a little bit, but not really.
You said there’s no such thing as an angry person. Unpack what you mean by that and what is the deeper truth to that?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah, so I mentioned [00:21:00] reactive anger before, which is different. So there’s healthy anger. Healthy anger is rooted in reality. So it’s rooted in truth. So you’re betraying me right now. I’m feeling that my body and my relationship to that anger should be one where I’m like, okay, I feel it right here in my chest.
I don’t need to dissociate from it. What does this anger need? It needs to have this boundary. It needs to have this assertive speech. It needs to have this accountability. That’s healthy anger. Reactive anger is, I think what most people think of when we think of like a hothead. ’cause a lot of people, and, and you know, they make all the news, right?
And so when people think like you’re sane, I can be angry. And then they think of the hothead person. I don’t wanna be like that person. No, we don’t wanna be like that person. So that person is someone who is just reactive anger. Now, reactive anger is someone who’s just triggered [00:22:00] in the present, but of course they haven’t done the work to where that trigger really belongs, which is, that’s anger from usually a primary attachment figure that they don’t want to acknowledge that they don’t want to do the work on, and so it shows up whenever there’s an echo of that person in their life, which could be just someone you know. For me, my big trigger, um, has been historically someone not making eye contact with me while I’m talking.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Hmm.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: So if you were to look away while we’re talking. I’d be triggered, right? And so my anger doesn’t belong to you. It belongs to my mom who didn’t make eye contact with me, and so I’m responsible for my trigger. We’re all responsible for our triggers. You are not responsible for my anger in this moment, I am. ‘Cause it’s my trigger. It belongs to me and I need to be responsible and do the work on healing myself.
So I don’t have this reactive anger [00:23:00] that’s getting, you know, incited whenever someone doesn’t make great eye contact or whenever someone, you know, whatever it is. That reminds me of my mom unconsciously. And that’s reactive anger. Those are those hotheads. They have all this anger, their anger is valid, but not in the present at the person they’re angry with.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: Absolutely, and it’s a good thing. I’m an eye contact person. I totally, firmly believe in in eye contact, both in therapy and on podcasts. I’ve actually been on podcasts where people have done that, and I just find that so. It’s, for me, it’s unnerving. It doesn’t necessarily make me angry, but it’s unnerving.
I’m like, wait, are they actually listening? I have no idea what’s going on right now. It’s, it’s, I I think that that’s, um, you know, a little bit rude, and I think some people, you know, might do that because they feel shy or they, you know, there’s even cultural aspects to that when they’re, you know, uh, taught that, uh, direct eye contact is rude.
[00:24:00] So, yes, you’re right. It’s like. We can make these assumptions, but they usually come from something that’s triggering in the past. And if we are not aware of that, uh, that’s, I think, where the reactivity comes out. Um, so, you know, it was interesting that you said, you know, I can, for the person, like who’s going through the work, I, I can express my anger, but I don’t wanna be that person.
What do we do for that person?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: So that person is all of us. Let’s be honest. We all have triggers. I’ve never met a human without triggers and and this is triggers I see, not as something to be ashamed about, but something to see as an opportunity to heal our relationship with ourselves. So I am really glad you asked that question.
So I’ll give you another example. A few years ago, my daughter, I’m gonna say, triggered me. It was my trigger, but, so another trigger I have had historically is when I’m in [00:25:00] the presence of another person, but it’s silent. I cannot handle it. It feels like rejection, if I’m honest. And I’ve just now kind of been able to name what it feels like.
I just knew it felt too uncomfortable. Um, so we got in a fight because I tried to ask her a question ’cause I can’t handle the silence. She didn’t wanna answer my question. I got mad at her. We got in a fight an hour later when I was settled down. I just sat down. I just sat in my chair, I closed my eyes. I replayed everything in my mind. I thought, oh my God, I was triggered. ’cause I can’t handle silence. That’s, that’s a me problem. I need to reflect on what’s going on for me. So I closed my eyes and I let myself just feel what I felt when we were together, and I let myself feel that in my body. And so I felt it in my gut.
Usually that’s where we feel shame then I [00:26:00] just focus on that sensation. I let my mind just passively float back to the earliest time I ever felt that same sensation. So by the way, this is what I call an integration exercise. So this is what I do with my clients. I do this on my podcast so that people who listen can do it for themselves, because anyone can do this for themselves.
You don’t need a therapist to do this. And I do it to myself, you know, still so. Um, so I, I come up with a memory of when I was three years old, my mom, um, and just the silence. I’m alone with her in the apartment. It’s just silent, just so silent, and it feels like rejection. And so what I do I keep my eyes closed.
I imagine my adult self going to little Bronwyn who’s three years old, getting down her level, looking her in the eyes. And seeing little Bronwyn, I know how ashamed you feel that you are with this attachment figure all [00:27:00] day long, but she’s never talking to you or listening to you or making eye contact with you.
And I know that you believe it’s a you problem. Of course you do. But I need you to see what I see now. I need you to see that her silence, her lack of attunement is not a reflection of you. Or a you problem. It is a hundred percent a reflection of a mom problem. And so we’re gonna take all the shame you feel, and we’re gonna put it in this big cardboard box and we’re gonna give it back to her.
And we’re gonna say, here you go, mom. is your shame. This
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: you.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I love this. I do something very similar with my clients, but it’s actually a little bit reversed.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I have them go back, like, you know, if they do get triggered, I usually ask them, well, does it remind you of something? And usually it does take them to the past. And then when we explore what that is,
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: I have them [00:28:00] then, you know, of course go through the situation as it was, and I would ha and then I have them.
Imagine if, if your mom or your dad was their highest self right now, say that they have evolved and learned and really healed from their own wounds.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: what they say to you right now about this particular moment, how would they address this? And usually they’ll talk about how they, they would apologize.
They would say I was struggling myself. I was not able to give you the love, care, safety, comfort that you needed. It had nothing to do with you. It had everything to do with me, and I am so sorry. And when they actually go through that exercise. It’s, it’s like an imagined apology. You may not ever get that in life,
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: but I have them embody the feeling.[00:29:00]
As if they would, if they were actually apologizing. How does your body feel?
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yeah.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: And that’s when I think the emotion releases from their body. So it’s sounds like we just do a lot of very similar work, Bronwyn, and I think it’s absolutely imperative that people understand that anger is healthy.
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Yes.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: It is natural.
We are meant to feel anger,
bronwyn_1_06-25-2025_120254: Mm-hmm.
dr–supatra-tovar_1_06-25-2025_120253: uh, especially when those boundaries are crossed or our needs are not getting met. It’s how we deal with the anger that really can make the difference. So I’m so glad you’re out there doing this and you’re a therapist who you know. I would go to. That sounds like you really do listen and you really do validate, and we definitely need more people like you.
But for right now, we’re out of time for this half of the podcast, but we’re gonna come back and we’re gonna talk in the second half and go even further into [00:30:00] the topics of anger and shame and how they’re embodied, uh, in our bodies. So thank you everyone for joining us. You’ve got to tune in next time for the second half of this wonderful interview with psychotherapist, speaker, and self described anger expert for Bronwyn Schweigerdt.
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